List Building: Double or Single opt-in?
By
Hey people,
It’s been a couple of weeks since my last post, but I just wanted to get your feedback on something …
I am sure many of you will have different views on this, and I would love to hear them.
I seem to be hearing quite a lot about whether people are using double opt-in, or whether they are using single opt-in for their list building activities …
I have been using double opt-in since my list started, but I notice many people that I speak to regularly are swapping to single opt-in …
OR have built their list using entirely single opt-in.
Admittedly, there is a large percentage of people that don’t actually click the link in the email sent to them for the double opt-in process.
I would say 25-30% of all subscribers don’t confirm their email address …
This is due to people either putting in a false email address, they’re not actually that interested in the information, they don’t realise they have to (even though they get a message that is VERY clear on what they have to do), or purely that they can’t be bothered or forget.
Oh, and one more thing … Aweber seem to take quite a long time to send out the confirmation email. Maybe only 20-30 seconds which isn’t long on one hand, BUT if someone is there waiting for it that’s way too long in my opinion!!
Why does it take them so long to deliver it?
The only trouble with single opt-in, is that it leaves you wide open to spam complaints, and people putting in false email addresses in order to download your ebook or whatever.
In the past people have always advised me to go for double opt-in as this is much safer, but I wanted to post here to get your views.
(I’m sure you have one!!)
I am not saying that I am going to change to single opt-in, and I am not saying that I will stick with double opt-in forever either …
BUT, I would like YOUR feedback on the methods YOU use to build your list …
Do you use single or double opt-in?
Have you had any negative effects from using single opt-in (or double for that matter)?
What are your thoughts, whether you are building a list right now, or you are a subscriber to people’s lists?
It seems that single opt-in lists build twice as fast, BUT does a double opt-in list weed out the less serious people by default?
I would love to read your thoughts and experiences 
Paul
Paul Lear
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Simon Stepsys
Hey Paul,
I will be watching this post with interest as this is something I have considered for a while myself.
I believe a double opt in list will be more qualified but you are right in suggesting you could lose out on up to 30% of subscribers who simply don’t follow through with the double opt in process.
Sure, there will be the odd few who put in wefdfs@wefqwerf.com as an email but those will be few and far between, checking my own stats proves that.
Looking forward to the responses!
David
David Walker´s last blog ..Are You Ready to Make the Breakthrough?
Hey David,
Yeah I thought this would stir up a few opinions on either side, but I just wanted to get as much feedback from people as I could.
I keep seeing conversations pop up about it, and thought this was a good way. I will post out to my list in the next couple of days too, so hopefully should get a wide range of responses
Talk soon mate,
Paul
Alright mate
Very good post, as David said I will be watching the comments very closely to see what everyone else is doing.
I remember having this chat with you a few days ago, and after asking advice in the skype adswap channel I switched to single optin.
It seems that some guys have built their lists just on single optins, and some switched once their lists were growing significantly.
I am really not sure of the implications of switching to single optin, but im loving the quicker increase in my list building efforts.
Speak soon
Marcus
marcus passey´s last blog ..Get your online business up and runninglets finally make money online
hey dude,
Yeah it’s interesting to see that a lot of people seem to be changing to single opt-in.
I suppose it’s the same as anything, when you are starting out double opt-in is much safer, but after the initial “learning” phase, maybe single is the way forward.
Let me know how you get on now you have been “converted” LOL
Talk soon,
Paul
Hi Paul – after having read your comment on AJ’s forum about the “IRATE” (to put it mildly) emailer you had, then you will understand the “relative safety” of the double opt-in method. A person like that with such a FOUL and vindictive temper and such a nasty and negative mindset can cause you a lot of trouble. These people are out there.
The bigger your list grows and the higher your profile becomes the more of these people will be “attracted” to you. IMO double opt-in is safer. I am sticking with it.
Yes, everybody wants to build a big list fast but you must also consider safety.
Having said that I am also trialing a secondary list with another company using just the single opt-in method. But like I said – this will just be a throw-away secondary list. Or maybe a “test” list – if you know what I mean. A bit like a nuclear testing ground where I can set off some explosions of my own. LOL!
Gary Simpson
TEMPLE
Hey Gary,
How are you mate?
I thought you would enjoy the “nice” comments I received as posted on the forum LOL
I have to say I really do agree with double opt-in and the safety it brings with it, but as I say I have seen many people discussing it and thought I would get people’s views from both sides.
I have no plans to move to single at the moment, but also thought it would be a good subject to discuss.
After d**khe*ds like the last one, I think the safety of my business and potential spam complaints should come first!
I would be interested to see how you get on with your “test” list after you have been running it for a while though
Talk soon mate,
Paul
Hi Paul,
I use double optin for IM as it’s safer. I think there will be a lot more complaints if you use single optin. A vindictive person could subscribe with a lot other peoples emails to your list.
I’ve heard people say to use single optin in some other niches single because people arent so aware that they will need to confirm and the percentage could drop a lot.
Do you think IM has more people who are more likely to be abusive?
Maybe people have been treated badly in this niche and are quicker to complain?
One some of my sites I use butterfly marketing makes people a member on single optin to the site, but they have to confirm to go on my aweber list.
Keith Purkiss´s last blog ..How you can solve 7 problems, and go having NO SALES and NO SUBSCRIBERS to $3149.71 in 3 months.
Hi Keith,
I tend to agree with you here. I have already had someone try to add a load of people to my list because they thought I was single opt-in. I caught them out as they all had the same ipaddress … LOL
This situation could have been a lot worse if I was single opt-in!
More people know the score in the IM niche, so like you say double opt-in is definitely the safer option!
Talk soon,
Paul
Hi Paul
Its a difficult one.
I’ve always used double opt in because it was drummed into me from day one. But you’re right, I’ve noticed an increasing number of people going for the single variety, so its worth a thought.
Didn’t make Vegas (obviously) but it sounds like you all had a great time.
Best wishes
Mike
Mike´s last blog ..The Magical World of Google…..
Hey Mike,
Yeah, double opt-in is definitely the way I am going to stay I think. Single opt-in will definitely build your list quicker, but not sure if these extra subscribers are actually worth anything at the end of the day.
The ones that don’t confirm could just be sat in a spam folder somewhere, and so that is where ALL your emails would go on single opt-in
Yeah, shame you couldn’t make Vegas mate, you missed some good times
Next time eh?!!
Talk soon,
Paul
Hey Paul,
As you know I have just switched to single optin on one of my lists for a test.
So far I have not seen an increase in any spam complaints or anything like that, the optin rate has increased though so all good at the moment.
Not sure how long I will keep it single though.
Have not read your comments in the forum yet will have to go check them out.
Talk soon,
James
Hey James,
How are you mate?
How are you finding the single opt-in? Are all the extra subbies responding to your emails? Or is it too early to tell?
I am still not convinced that single opt-in just adds unnecessary numbers to your list that won’t respond anyway … I may be wrong?! This is why I thought I would open this debate
Let me know how it goes a bit further down the line!
Cheers mate,
Paul
No Worries I will keep you posted but at the moment it is to early to tell the open and click % is keeping steady so all looking good at the moment but I understand what you mean if I feel that it does just add numbers that don’t click then there is no point.
Talk soon,
James
James Howard´s last blog ..How To Eat Your Ugly Frog
Hi Paul,
I can see that you want to stimulate a conversation on a subject that for some seems eternal.
I’m surprised at how many people so far are actually using single opt in even if for testing purposes only.
With so much spam these days and the resulting irritation of people by it I think that double opt in is the only way to go.
Even if people opt in to your list because of something they liked, they often forget about it and later consider your mailing as a pure spam.
If they double opt in they will more probably remember that and will be less likely to accuse you of spam.
Did someone say that it’s not the size of the list but the relationship you have with your list?
It was fun to participate in this. I wonder what the final results will be. Will a single opt in opinion prevail or will it be the obvious double opt in?
Vance
Vance Sova´s last blog ..MAKE MONEY BLOGGING, A New Daniel Scocco’s Ebook Review
Hey Vance,
Yeah it seems that there are a lot of people at least dipping their toe in to see what the response is like.
I have to agree that it is a much safer option, and after some of the unsubscribe messages I have received, and a couple of other things that have happened, I think I will keep it this way.
Talking to someone the other day their unsubscribe rate was HUGE on single opt-in. I would be interested to find out if this is the case for ALL the single opt-in lists?!
Like you say, it is all about the relationship with your list, and getting people to open your emails … not just numbers.
Thanks for your feedback, we’ll keep in going and see what else comes to light from the single opt-in side
Talk soon,
Paul
I have thought about this myself but only once I have a process in place to separate the ‘buyers’ who get emailed a lot less often (no swaps) from the rest of the list.
….On the other hand as Gazz says safety can be a concern especially given most of us ‘amateurs’ have our home addresses on the bottom of each email.
Given this I think in my case for now to stick with the double optin approach until at least I have a registered company elsewhere from my home address which show on correspondence.
Also remember fast doesn’t always mean good – I have had a fair amount of previous experience building business fast and not being geared up to cope with it – I think this IM is the same, refining ones processes steadily whilst building has worked well for me given the limited time I have spare.
Peter Davies´s last blog ..Video Marketing Product Review
Hey Peter,
Yeah, I think double opt-in is the way forward, and the more stories I hear, the more I think I want to keep it that way!
Like you say, fast isn’t always best. It’s just a case of steadily building things up at a pace that fits for you
Talk soon mate,
Paul
I read all the comments concerning single opt in and double opt in.
I switched from double opt in to single opt in and have not had anymore complaints then normal. Yes I do get more bounces, but I also get a lot more subscribers.
What a lot of people are missing are some of the techniques you need to use with a single opt in approach. When using a single opt in form, once they submit the form bring them to a “Thank You” page with some other free offers and maybe a OTO. Although on the top of the page state that they will get a link to their FREE product via email. So if they gave you a fake email address they will not get the link to download your free product.
I must say after changing from double opt in to single opt in my conversion rate has gone up by at least 30%.
There’s my 2 cents….
Later,
Jayson Benoit
Hey Jayson,
Do you find that you are getting decent open and click throughs from your subscribers? Or do you think the ones that people wouldn’t have confirmed are just sitting in people’s spam folders … ?
I can see both sides to this, as on one hand I am jealous at the speed the single opt-in list builders are adding subscribers, but personally I’m gonna stick with the double for the time being
Talk soon
Paul
Hello Paul
I have been planning out the process for different work flows for my business for 2010, ie Giveways, Adswaps, Selling a Product with a JV, and Affiliate promoting and I was thinking just the same as you Single or Double opt in’s, we have been told the double in opt in route, but when i have brought and downloaded products, I don’t remember going through the double Opt in route, but saying that I don’t remember them sending me another email trying to sell me something else, they have left money on the table then.
At the end of the day ( I sounded like David Beckham then sorry) the main assests of our business are the websites ( but this can be taken down ) so that leaves us the backbone of our business is OUR MAILING LIST.
We have worked so hard to build them. and to protect our businesses and keep them future proof, The safe route is The Double Opt In
Speak Soon
Dean
Dean´s last blog ..Driving Visitors To Your Website Using Articles
Hey Dean!
How are you mate?
Yeah I completely agree … a HUGE part of our business is our lists! This is the one thing we have where we can contact people whenever we like, and build relationships with them
I think you are right in saying that in order to protect us and our businesses, we should stick with the double opt-in route!
I saw your request on skype the other day … we must catch up soon
Take care,
Paul
Hello Paul,
Double opt-in for me.
Seeing as my list currently stands at less than 300, I think it’s too early to consider single opt-in.
I must admit though that the amount of people not double opting-in is very frustrating – I was beginning to think that I was the only one suffering from this!
Plus I’ve already had a couple of spam complaints so am glad that I have gone down the double opt-in route.
Take care,
Cliff
Cliff Truss´s last blog ..My On-Line Journal
Hey Cliff,
Yeah I think double opt-in is definitely the way forward! You are definitely not alone with people not clicking the confirm link … this is something that we ALL experience unfortunately.
With the possibility of spam complaints, and the mentality of some of the people out there, this is the safest option in the long run, even if it does mean less confirmed subscribers
Talk soon,
Paul
Hey Paul,
As a relative Newbie I feel as Cliff does,that double optin is safer,as it could result in increased spam complaints.Any spam complaints is not good for a Newbie.
It is interesting to see how few spam complaints are listed in your commentators reports.I was surprised.
Afraid I would have to align myself with the double optin for now.Does anyone have a percentage gain for single optin I wonder?
Kind Regards
Ray
Hey Ray,
I think there are quite considerable gains in terms of numbers, but I have yet to be convinced that the extra numbers are as responsive, and not just sat in someone’s spam folder somewhere.
I think this would be something to test over a period of time with a single opt-in list though.
Thanks for stopping by
Talk soon,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Interesting topic, It’s definitely a good way to build a list fast, but I wouldn’t recommend doing it to anyone with a list smaller than 1000, because the level of complaints will be higher percentage, if there were any.
I tried it for while but changed back to double opt-in now, as I do believe it is the way forward… Like others have said, I’d prefer quality over quantity any day.
For the confirmation side of things, It can be painful to see the amount of people not confirming, but you just have to forget about them like you do with unsubscribes I guess…
As for the amount of time it takes for eth conformation email to arrive sometimes, I think it’s probably because of Aweber’s server load and the amount of requests/people sending out emails at certain times, that causes the delay.
But for a service that we pay a lot of money for, I hope the server response time will get better as time goes on.
Talk soon,
Paul
Paul Lear´s last blog ..How I built my List from 50 to 2000 in around 15 weeks!
Hey Paul,
Thanks for your comments
I will definitely be sticking with double opt-in for the time being. Many of the BIG name marketers out there still use double opt-in, which in my mind sends a clear message doesn’t it?
I agree, I hope Aweber increases the response time of the confirm link they send out too.
Hope you’re ok mate
Talk soon,
Paul
Paul,
Thanks for this post. I’m not gonna argue that there’s a lot to argue about this topic
I mean, lets take a look at the general opinion about single opt-ins: usually people think about single opt-in as the ‘spammy world of email marketing’. And considering C-SPAN and the new FTC regulation, I guess its safe to say none wants to be remotely involved with spam.
So, yeah… double opt-in it is! Now, as Paul mentioned above, its about quality vs. quantity. I also prefer quality. The question remains, how to optimize everything so that double opt-ins will work.
So, we are talking about how to actually get people to log in their email accounts and click that confirmation link. And I found that the numbers of confirmed subscribers almost doubles if I simply put a little note right below the subscription button on my squeeze pages, that says something like: “IMPORTANT: We’ll send you an email with a confirmation link. In order to confirm your email address please click the confirmation link’, or something along those lines.
The trick I guess would be to spit test everything until you get maximum conversion rates
Remi Vladuceanu´s last blog ..Is Russell Brunson’s Viral-Secret List Building System A Scam?
Hey Remi,
Yeah I am definitely sticking with double opt-in for now. Like you say, if you tell people exactly what to do on your thank you page this definitely increases conversions.
It’s still tough though getting a very high percentage of people to click on those confirm links
It’s all about testing and what works for you. I made a couple of changes on this page and increased my double opt-ins. One more thing I am going to try and test is creating a short video and see what effect that has … I’ll let you know how it goes!
Talk soon mate,
Paul
I don’t have a list yet, but I have seen a number of thank you pages where they say to click the verification and include a new opt-in form for those who used fake emails.
Personally, as a newbie and after hearing so many pros and cons from marketers AND from list servers, If I were to use single opt-in, I would limit the emails to, say, 5-7 and tell the recipient on the first email. Then try to get them to double opt-in or be dropped.
Once they get to know you, they won’t mind the double opt-in AND you have someone who reads your email. Then, you also dump all the dead-end email accounts without recipients in the first place.
I use a different autoresponder, but doesn’t Aweber make you pay according to the number of addresses on your list? It also makes you pay for those who left your list if you don’t ask them to remove them.
It boils down to this, Is it better to have a smaller qualified list, or a larger unqualified list?
Buck
Buck´s last blog ..In-Text- Internal Page Links
Hey Buck,
Thanks for your comments!
I totally agree that it is better to have people that actually read your emails on your list than not. Aweber charge for EVERYONE on your list whether subscribed, unsubscribed, or fake emails unless you delete them off.
I am just starting to go through a phase of deleting people who haven’t opened ANY of my emails for the last few months so as to get rid of some of the “dead wood” so to speak.
Like you say, a smaller more target list has to be better in the long run, and stops aweber costs getting too expensive
Cheers,
Paul
Its a hard one as I can see the pro’s and con’s on both sides, however, I must say that I always go in on the single opt in front. I understand that double opt ins show that the visitor to the site is super qualified BUT with the consideration you have spend time and probably money on advertising and marketing to get them there, then I feel that you should take any opportunity to capture their details when they are on your page.
I’ve had instances before where I’ve opted into a webpage and really wanted to get ‘stuck in’ to the registered members area and found myself sitting there waiting for an email to arrive so that i could click on the confirmation link.Most of the time the waiting ended up in me navigating away from the site.
I think that fake email addresses that are entered into your optin box is just a casulty of internet marketing and if someone is offering their email address on your site then take it without a varification.
I have the attitude that its better to be on my list than not and anyone not wanting to bw on it anymore can unsubscribe at any time
YourNetBiz´s last blog ..YourNetBiz
Hey Andy,
I can definitely see your point of view on this, and I know what you mean about sitting there waiting for the confirmation email … LOL (I think Aweber are particularly slow at this!)
I am still tweaking and testing at the moment, and I still may set up a single opt-in list just to test conversions and clicks compared to double opt-in
I’ll see how it goes!
Talk soon mate,
Paul
I disagree 100% with double opt ins.
Contact me for my free report to learn why SINGLE optin is the ONLY way to go
SSS
Hey Simon,
How are you?
Yeah, shoot me over your report and I’ll take a look through
I know there are two sides to this, that’s why I thought I would get people’s feedback!
Talk soon mate,
Paul
Sure I’ll check out that report. How do I get it?
Michael Martin´s last blog ..Work from Your Home Computer
Paul,
As you know I am just about to start building my list. I found an article that is relevant to this discussion: http://www.rickkettner.com/single-vs-double-opt-in/
He makes some very interesting points for going with double opt-in.
Thanks,
Peter
Hey Peter,
Thanks for the link
That’s exactly my point here! There is some great info over there, and although I have only skimmed through it for now, I think it is worth a read (especially for all those currently using single opt-in!)
Take care,
Paul
Single opt-in for a report that has viral possibilities. This has a link to your double aweber list. Maybe even have a phone number on the viral thing. I am thinking about adding free opensource software to downloads.com that routes people back to my sites. That would be zero-opt-in.
Hey Wolf,
Yeah that could be a plan, let me know how you get on
Cheers,
Paul
Hi Paul:
Just starting out in the IM business, I prefer to err on the side of caution and choose double opt-in.
I was thinking about using AWeber’s split testing feature for web forms – one form double opt-in and the other single. But reneged on the idea because I didn’t feel like attracting any weirdness.
So I’m growing slow.
Julie Jules Watson´s last blog ..Keep It Simple- Get It Done
Hey Julie,
Yeah double opt-in is definitely the best way to get started. Depending on what ways you are using to drive traffic, this certainly makes sure you have 100% valid addresses on your list
Talk soon buddy,
Paul
Hello,
I was taught by “Russell Brunson” that double opt-in “is the devils work” his exact words. He’s completely against it. when someone who makes $10 million a year speaks, I listen.
So I’ve been doing single opt-in for years with no problems.
my 2 cents.
Michael
Hey Michael,
Thanks for your input
Yeah there seems to be for and against for both sides. I have a single opt-in list that I have been trialling as a test for a few weeks, and I haven’t as yet run into any problems with it.
I still have my main lists on double opt-in though, so I’ll see how it goes for the time being!!
Thanks buddy,
Paul
Hi Paul:
It’s been several weeks – how are the single opt-in lists that you (and Gazzman) testing working out?
Higher-than-usual unsubscribe rates?
Lower clickthrough rates?
Actual spam complaints?
Very interested. Thanks for sharing!
Bolaji @ Rat-Race-Escape-Artists.com´s last blog ..Writing an eBook- What’s Your Super Power